Wednesday, March 24, 2010
I have been talking to my good friend Lydia, a member of my church, sheís been a member for a year, seems like longer than that, has had a tragedy in her family, but a warning to men and women, stay away from abusive relationships. Not good for you, so thatís one good thing that comes out of it and weíre continuing to hold Lydia and her family up in prayer dealing with this situation.
Going to the phone lines now and take your calls.
My comment is for yesterday on the medium and you wanted to know where in the bible it said that they would be put to death. Leviticus 20:27 (caller reads passage).
†27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Pastor Moss: Youíre right. In fact the thing thatís interesting about it is that in I Chronicles 10:13 (pastor reads passage).
13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;
So thatís why he died, God forbade it in the law; he knew it and he violated Gods command anyway.† Youíre right, that was our challenge and Iím going to be giving a summation of that on todayís program.
Weíve just about left it alone. We came to the conclusion that according to your faith let it be done unto you, so those that want to believe that they can lose it you go ahead, and those who that you now have it and its with you then it be good unto you too. The question now is, we got a question about John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
where it says the thief comes to kill, steal and destroy. The later part of that where it says: I came to give you life and to give it more abundantly. Is he talking about, some kind of believe this is materialistic, and some of us believe it more has to do with the spiritual aspect of an abundant life.
Pastor Moss: I would agree with those who believe that it has more to do with the spiritual abundance than dealing with the physical aspect of it. In fact when he talks about life there the word bios is not used which is biological life the word ZoŽ is used which really is the Greek word for spiritual life and so thatís what he was talking about us having more abundantly, not material things and prosperity but spiritual life; in fact everlasting life, thatís the real focus of Jesusí ministry. If so that if we believe in him as it say in John 5:24 and verses following, weíve already passed from death unto life. So eternal life is what he was all about.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Not that you canít get blessed here in this realm, but Jesus Christ did not die on the cross or come here for us to be rich.
It seems like the majority of them think that of the natural materialistic world thatís what he meant by abundant life. The rest of us weíre more so agreeing with what you just said.
Pastor Moss: Let me comment on that and give you a little more ammunition for that. If it were so that he came to give us, this was physical prosperity that he was talking about, then if that were the case then every Christian who had faith and was a believer in Christ should be rich, wealthy, free of pain, plenty of money. But, however that is not what it said in Hebrews 11.
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
When we look there it gives us both aspects of faith. It gives us 1 where there were people who were delivered, delivered from the jaws of lions, delivered from the fire, from everything. But, there were other folks who had faith and look at how they lived. Says in verse 35-37 (read passage).
35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Now tell your friends what about these wondering around in sheep skins and their Christians if weíre supposed to have life more abundantly and what it means is just physical blessings. In fact it says; in goat skins being destitute afflicted and tormented, then verse 39 says: and all these having obtained a good report.
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
So all of them were faithful, but just because you have faith does not mean youíre going to be materially well off.† And wasnít it Paul who said, that he knew how to be full and hungry. So the bible is pretty clear that Jesus is not talking there in that sense about, the focus isnít on material well being.
Right. One other question in Matthew 20:16 where it says many are called but few are chosen. What did he mean by chosen?
16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
Pastor Moss:† I would say this, that the call goes out to everyone, everyone is called but only a few are chosen. The ones who are not chosen are those who hear the call and reject it. They heard the call, they were called, but theyíre not chosen by God because they donít accept him. They donít receive the call that was given.
Ok, you remember the thing about Paul where God told Ananias that he was a chosen vessel unto him; well this is the debate here now, in some cases it looks like you donít have a choice. Kind of like, I guess you would say they were using Jonah as an analogy. The way everything just worked its way out, really Jonah did not have a choice but to do what he did. Like he was chosen to go to Nineveh even though he tried to go the other way God knew that he was going to go so in this situation with Paul the chosen then there was no way that he could have, like he was predestinated from the very beginning in the mind of God to do what he was going to do.
Pastor Moss: Well what happens is I would differ with those who say Jonah didnít have a choice. He had a choice. He could have stayed in the whale or he could have confessed what he said and went to Nineveh. In other words, letís put it this way, God did give him a lot of motivation but he still had a choice. Paul had a choice too. Even though he was knocked on the ground, he still could have got up and blasphemed God, just as people did in the book of Revelation during the tribulation period after all of the judgments came upon them. So no, God does give choice, in fact people are told to believe, John 12:36 Jesus said while you have light believe in the light, that you might be the children of light.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Conversely, if you donít believe in the light you wonít be one of the children of light. So youíre to believe.
Iím agreeing with what youíre saying. But thereís that one scripture where he says, you did not choose me, but I chose you. It goes to say that you really didnít have a choice, thatís the way they looking at that.
Pastor Moss: They can look at it that way but they ignore the balance of the evidence. Over in John 15:16 Jesus does say, you have not chosen me but I have chosen you.
16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
But that doesnít mean that they didnít choose him, all heís saying is that ultimately none of us would make it unless we were chose by Jesus, or chose by God. But the same token still we make a choice. We have to receive him, so both are true and both are true without being contradictory. God being sovereign of course he determines everything that happens. But problem here we just donít know how he does that, but he says we have to believe and we have to make the choice. John 1:12 As many as received him to them gave he power to become the children of God.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
In fact God chastises people for not believing. So regardless of what anybody says, yes God chooses us but we also choose him as well.
I have a scripture in I Corinthians 6:11 I believe this is a key scripture; there are churches all over the area and they have faith in Jesus and they believe in the Lord but theyíre teaching different things. And I believe whoever has this understanding of this scripture in the correct and right way has the real plan of salvation. I just like to see what you say about it.
Pastor Moss:† Where it says in I Corinthians 6:11 (reads passage).
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Yeah, I think thatís good stuff.† I think right there we see some of the big terms of salvation.
Ok, that term washed, does that mean saved?
Pastor Moss:† Basically I would say yes cause youíre washed by the Holy Spirit. The word in Greek here is† loosed, that the salvation is provided by Jesus Christ looses us from our sins, just as water looses you from dirt.
Did this take place all at the same time or is this progressively or, it seems like there are different portions in there?
Pastor Moss: Itís talking about some different things. Says and such were some of you, but you were washed. Now that has to start everything, in other words you have to be born again by the word of God. In other words thereís no processÖ. You have to be born again. Then it says but you are sanctified; now sanctified has 2 aspects as well. The minute you become saved, instantaneously you are set apart by God, but at the same time you have to give evidence of that sanctification. Youíve got to walk in a position that God has placed you in. Then justified; what that means of course is a forensic term, a legal term that means you are justified by God, youíre saved because of Jesus Christ. Itís as if you never sinned. So itís not saying youíre washed first, sanctified first, and justified first; all of these happen at the same time. There is progressive sanctification however.
Then it says in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ Spirit of God, what does that part mean?
Pastor Moss:†† The one who does it all, thatís just telling you who the person is who washes you, who sanctifies you and who justifies you. Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ; in Jesus Christ and in him alone.
I didnít hear when you first came on about the trivia from yesterday.
Pastor Moss:† Well the answer to the question is that no, we are forbidden to communicate with the dead. Itís very clear; a number of passages, one over in Isaiah , a number of them have been given, Leviticus, Deuteronomy 18 which comes against it, I Chronicles 10 and also thereís a passage in Isaiah 8:20 which lets us know this is something that we should not do. In fact what the bible is telling us is itís not something that we should even be seeking, is to communicate with the dead. Itís in Isaiah 8:19-20 (read passage).
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Basically what heís saying is youíre not supposed to be trying to communicate with the dead at all. If you want any super natural information you should be seeking God for it. Thatís basically exactly what heís saying. And then at verse 20 it points us to the key source, (read passage), so weíre supposed to go to the word of God, weíre supposed to go to God, but not to mediums and not to try to communicate with the dead for information.
I have a question in regards to divorce and remarriage. I donít know what chapter itís in: a friend of mine, actually a co-worker, she was divorced, her and her husband were both Christians when they got married, he divorced and married someone else, and this person he is currently married to, he has children with this new woman and itís been like 15 years ago. She stated that God does not recognize his second marriage because they were both Christians when they were married and he committed adultery on her and divorced and married the other woman; and that her ex-husband is supposed to divorce his current wife and remain single for the rest of his life. I say well what about the kids, that would leave the kids without a father so why would you combine it with a second sin? Was my question to her. But, my question to you is, I do believe that of course, he committed adultery so he probably shouldnít have remarried, even though he has, I would assume that God would consider that if he repented for that, wouldnít his marriage now still be legitimate, because she stated itís not cause God never recognize it just like he wouldnít recognize homosexuals, therefore† this is not a recognizable marriage and he is not repented as long as he stays married, so he is, she doesnít believe in eternal security by the way, so he eventually is going to hell anyway according to her.
Pastor Moss:† First of all a lot of assumptions are made by her, they could be true assumptions or false, thatís why itís hard to give a firm hard answer to this. First of all she said when they first got married they both were Christians, well how do she know that he was? She canít look inside of his heart and know for sure that he was. Now I know that she wouldnít marry him unless she at least thought he was cause then youíll be violating II Corinthians 6:14 which says do not be unequally yoked believer with unbeliever, but could be that he wasnít saved in the first place. In fact, for him to up and commit adultery and then to leave her like he did and not repent of the adultery and at least try to restore the relationship doesnít bowl well for him really being a Christian, so thatís first off.† On the same hand I do agree with her, I donít think that God is going to approve of you committing adultery with a woman, committing adultery against your wife, then marrying the other woman that you were committing fornication with. So, the bottom line is just leave that up to God. I donít think that, it doesnít seem to me to be right, or correct either in terms of what heís doing. But, all he can do is, definitely like you said, for the sake of those children, heís got to be the man he has to be. So heís got to still carry on what he does in the family.† But, I wouldnít be the one to say that God is blessing that relationship, I would say this that God is interested in making sure that the Kids donít suffer from a relationship like that. And I tell you what, in my ministry experience Iíve never seen, and maybe itís because itís limited, but I havenít seen it work too well when you have situations like that for the people who married and it was a marriage based upon fornication.
So say that person, the ex-husband for example, can he, going on the assumption that he was a believer and he shouldnít have done that, cause believers still can sin, so Iím assuming that he was a believer, is that a sin that he canít repent for and stay married to his current wife?, so, I donít understand that.
Pastor Moss:† Iím not telling anyone what God would do, but I know that all I can say is thatís something that would be between him and God. Itís kind of rough, but definitely if a person is truly, truly repentant, then I believe that God is going to forgive anyone, God will forgive them and guide them. You know itís like real hard to look at a situation like this, you would have thought that if he was going to repent it should have been repenting and not continuing that adulterous relationship, breaking that off right away. So, thatís a hard question to answer, so the only thing you can do is leave that between him and God.
Ok well thank you so much Pastor Moss.
My question to you sir, a two-fold question: one is in regard to those who preach and teach another gospel, I have a buddy whoís a oneness apostolic pentecostalist, who doesnít believe in the trinity, in fact he said that the scripture which says in Matthew 12:19 the formula for baptizing in the name of Jesus only, that was not originally in the bible.
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
By him denying the trinity is he denying the express image of Christ Jesus as well as the trinity?
Pastor Moss:† Yeah I would say so, but the thing is, I met people who do it, thereís 2 categories, some folks who do it totally ignorantly, they donít know what theyíre doing.
Oh this one knows.
Pastor Moss:† Now I tell you what, he doesnít know, if he says that Matthew 28:19 was not originally in the bible, he knows little. A person, all heíd have to do is study textual criticism and look at the history of the translation, heís got to prove that by actually looking at the documents and the documents are clear. There wasnít a time when that was added in and where it was not, so heís ignorant of that, thereís something that he doesnít know. And usually things of this nature are based upon, or in other words a lot of times the reason why a person really doesnít believe in the doctrine of the trinity, they donít understand it or they have to deny pieces of information that would lead them to it. Because, what heís admitting by what he says is that, that scripture does give evidence for the trinity, thatís why itís got to be denied. But a typical argument thatís used by people in Islam or anyone who doesnít like what the bible says, itís not in the manuscripts, it wasnít there.
Just like in Galatians, I think it was Galatians 5:7 where it speaks of three bearing witness of him.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Pastor Moss:† Thatís I John 5:7. Which we admit, now that one we know, we know that that was not in some of the earlier manuscripts, that didnít, Erastus put that in because someone found a manuscript that was 16th century, and we admit that see, and thatís what I mean, there is a difference between when you say that something isnít in the original manuscripts you must have studied that, you just canít come up with that, and thatís what folks donít realize. In fact, Iíve often challenged people, letís sit down, bring your information, Iíll bring mine to the table, you show me where this was missing and where it got put in, cause thatís the work of scholarship.† So, but youíre right about I John 5:7, the only thing is I John 5:7 is not the only verse that talks about the doctrine of the trinity. There are verses all through the bible, no doctrine, no doctrine of systematic theology is based just on one verse. That is what a lot of people, even a guy by the name of Dr. Ehrman thinks, who wrote the book Misquoting Jesus, heís using that one verse as an example and says well if this verse is gone the trinity falls. No, thatís not so.
Second question is, I was talking to my sister and she was telling me that, we were discussing capital punishment, and she said being a believer she doesnít believe in capital punishment and she said show me in scripture does Jesus ever kill anyone, does he ever mention killing anyone? I said no he never flew a helicopter either, but it doesnít mean he doesnít believe in capital punishment.
Pastor Moss: She said that Jesus never killed anyone huh? (Yep). Does she maintain that when Jesus comes back he doesnít kill anyone?
No she said he never killed anyone in the scriptures, not on his return, but in the scriptures that we read now. To say that meant that she did not believe that he believed in capital punishment. Almost like the red letter Christian.
Pastor Moss:† Your argument was a good argument about him being in a helicopter, kind of thing, but the fact is definitely she canít maintain that for him when he comes back because in Revelations 19:15 It shows that he comes back (read passage),
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
†then over in Revelations 20 it talks about him languishing people on the earth with his mouth. He comes back after the 1000 year reign, there is one more and let me read it here Revelations 20:9 (read passage),
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
now if thatís not capital punishment I donít know what is. Now what she might say to that is well God is the one who can do that. Yes God can and also God can commission others to do that. So her argument that Jesus did not do it is a fragile one because actually if God commands capital punishment for murder thatís what we see in Genesis 9 and we donít see anywhere where God says donít so it except in the case of the adulterous woman over in the gospel of John. Her argument doesnít wash.
One more question convince a person that abortion is mentioned in the bible. Not the word itself, another sister believes that since she donít see abortion in the bible that means itís ok.
Pastor Moss:† Itís amazing that people will say that they are going to continue to smoke marijuana until they see in the bible thou shall not smoke weed. The principles in the bible are very clear, it doesnít have to match every single word that you have. Of course abortion is mentioned in the bible, itís described, it doesnít have the exact word, but that shows you that naivetť, and I have to say this, where people are not educated, where theyíre arguing well the word has to be there, if I donít find weed in there Iím going to keep smoking weed, If I donít find lucky strikes Iím going to keep smoking, you know. Exodus 21 is what she needs where it says and show how God wants to protect the young, in verse 22 and if men strive and hurt a woman with child so that her fruit depart from her and yet no mischief follow he shall be surely punished.
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
So, and this is mentioned other places in the bible as well. Thatís all you need to show her brother, you got it too.
Pastor Moss: This is Pastor Moss here in the last segment of our program trying to give this summation concerning what we talked about yesterday and that is† biblically should we try to talk or communicate with the dead? And the answer is no, weíve seen that, for a number of reasons, first of all, God forbids it, it gets you off into dealing with the occult and sorcery and witchcraft, which of course God forbids as well in a number of passages of scripture in the old testament, we have some in the new as well, Leviticus 18, 20,
20: 27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
over in Acts 19
13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the LORD Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth. 14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? 16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
†and here in Luke 16 it seems to be pretty, pretty clear where it says concerning this life and the afterlife, where remember Lazarus and the rich man, Lazarus goes into Abrahamís bosom which is a Hebrew idiom for heaven we believe and the rich man winds up in hades, now after the rich man gets into hades, he turns into Billy Graham, he wants to be an Evangelist, while heís in hell and he wants some things done. In fact, what he asks for is that Lazarus would return from the dead, go back and preach to his brothers who are still left. But, thereís something that is said here in Luke 16:26 which is very telling, where it says, and besides all this between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot neither can they pass to us that would come from thence. So, in other words thereís a gulf fixed, the dead is separated from the living by let us say super natural barriers. People donít just come back from the dead they donít do it. God of course for his purposes can allow anything to happen, heís always sovereign, but definitely we donít see in the bible where people are communicating with their dead loved ones. Alright, you just donít see it. The reason you donít see it is cause it doesnít happen except in the single case that we talked about.
16: 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.